Stumbled
My research has led me in the past to some very scriptural encouragement from Jude when I really needed the support and the following is my biblical research from several years ago, plus some even more rather surprising scriptural insights that is controversial but never the less from the Word of God, which is as we know the basis of true faith and for setting things straight and if Almighty God has included the following in His Word the bible for our instruction then it must be covered for all to benefit.
To have a part or to contribute to the purity of the worship of Jehovah God is the greatest honour anyone can possibly have in life. I have suffered the mistreatment by some who are covered in this section and almost stumbled, but as it eventually led to this insight then I suppose it’s worth it.
My heart goes out to you if you have been stumbled and possibly due to no fault of your own, or even dealt with harshly, if so please take another look, the following is God’s Word, He’s said that these things will and do happen and they can make some very bitter towards the truth as they don’t know where or who to turn to, but these things are not from God, He has warned us about it and will deal with the perpetrators in time, but for now He says remember the words of Christ and please comeback.
My comments in blue, Scriptures & quotes in black, references in green.
Luke 17:1 Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! 2 It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones. NWT2013
There have been a few occasions when I personally have received opposition or persecution in my faith and on one occasion I was nearly stumbled out of the truth. I had begun doing more than I had ever done in the ministry and loving it, with many bible studies and deep research, the hard thing for me was where the persecution was coming from; those responsible (no names) were eventually dealt with (but that wasn’t the first occasion or the last). In the mean time I was given timely help which I can only call divine; I was asked to give a talk on the highlights of Jude, of all accounts at that time why Jude. Now I had no real idea of the contents of Jude, just 25 verses long and I have never heard it explained in detail as it should be, it may be short but it’s very powerful. Having studied it I thought; how can I possibly stand up and give a talk on Jude, the content is so controversial and I was let’s say quieter back then, well I did the talk and the letter of Jude helped me greatly and over the years my ministry, study and deep research has drawn me closer to Jehovah, and where as I used to be nervous on the platform, no more, I love it, I felt I had something to contribute due to in part my research and ministry, and my faith is unbreakable now. I hope it will help you too;
The talk;
The letter of Jude.
It’s appropriate that Jude is the last book before Revelation as it’s a book of warning to the Christian congregation today!
Notice in verse 1 Jude’s humility although a half-brother of Christ he calls himself, a slave of Jesus Christ, but a brother of James. He could have said I’m Christ’s Brother, I’m important but no Jude’s humility contrasts greatly with whom he speaks of.
But first to show the gravity of the situation and for those he is going to warn us about; an outline of Verses 5–11; Jude says that he has a desire to remind us God saved his people out of the land of Egypt and afterwards destroyed those not showing faith…then of…the angels…that…forsook their own proper dwelling… and… Sod´om and Go·mor´rah… fornication … the path of Cain… course of Ba´laam …talk of Ko´rah!… judgments **… punishments.
Cross ref ** 2 Pe 2:9 reserve unrighteous people for the day of judgment to be cut off.
Now to the point; Jude in verse 3 said he wanted to write to up build; Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write YOU about the salvation we hold in common… but he stops here and changes course, but why couldn’t he go on?!
He continues; I found it necessary to write YOU to exhort YOU to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones. The cross ref. there is; Eph 6:11 Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil.
He goes on to say that this is within the congregation, but why put on armour within the congregation, surly when you walk through the door you take your armour off! And what is Jude warning about!
We will see in verse; 4 My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct (this loose conduct “is not limited to acts of sexual immorality… but… disregard for (Jehovah’s) standards, laws and authority” W73 9/15 as with the; course of Ba´laam …talk of Ko´rah) 4 continues; and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ. Or to God’s word the Bible. 12 These are the rocks hidden below water in YOUR love feasts while they feast with YOU, shepherds that feed themselves without fear; 13 wild waves of the sea that foam up their own causes for shame; stars with no set course, for which the blackness of darkness stands reserved forever.
Vines Dic. says … “Stars of Jude 13, false teachers…as if the stars intended for light and for guidance (of the congregation), became the means of deceit…
16 These men are murmurers, complainers about their lot in life, proceeding according to their own desires, and their mouths speak swelling things, while they are admiring personalities for the sake of [their own] benefit.
What about us? 17 As for YOU, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
What does the faithful and discrete slave say on this matter? Never doubt this: There is no circumstance in life but what God’s Word, the Bible, has principles for guiding, enabling the Christian to be “fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”
So, there is never just cause for leaning on one’s own wisdom in counseling. Rather than getting off onto tangents due to personal ideas ….by staying clearly within the limits of Scriptural counsel. W73 8/15
If our counsel to others is based simply on our own conscience or opinion, we are bound to mislead them… even cause much damage. W77 12/1
Prov. 3:5“Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, And do not rely on your own understanding.”
One of the people in connection with my problem asked another shepherd ‘is he having a go at me’ the reply was ‘he’s just quoting scripture’! Nice one bro.
Additional;
In verse 12 the shepherds are called; rocks hidden below water or in other words they are stumbling blocks and 16 proceeding according to their own desires; they are only interested in themselves and again they are admiring personalities for the sake of [their own] benefit and they should be for light and for guidance Vines; but without any concern for their flock they stumble them. Again Jude in verse 24 mentions stumbling again; 24 Now to the one who is able to guard you from stumbling and to make you stand unblemished in the sight of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord
Notice that Jude does not say that these shepherds and stars are necessarily removed from the congregation! As Jude goes straight from verse 16 describing these ungodly men to 17 As for YOU, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings … of our Lord Jesus Christ, so if you are having problems from this source it may not be sorted and you may have put up with it and keep your armour on, stay faithfull! Also in the next verse it confirms that this is for our day; 18 how they used to say to you: “In the last time there will be ridiculers, following their own desires for ungodly things.”
Of course this attitude of some shepherds has been around for thousands of years, and Jehovah has warned of them before; the cross references of Jude 12 are; Eze 34:7 “Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah: 8 my shepherds did not search for my sheep; rather, they kept feeding themselves and did not feed my sheep 10…‘I am against the shepherds, and I will demand an accounting of them for my sheep, and I will dismiss them from feeding my sheep 15 but the fat one and the strong one I will annihilate. I will feed that one with judgment.” And;
Re 21:8 But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.”
It’s interesting that most versions of the bible omit the word ‘shepherd’ completely from Jude; such is the dominance of man.
Jude certainly puts a new light on scriptures like; Acts 20:28-30 to shepherd the congregation of God… oppressive wolves will enter in among you… from among you yourselves; it’s clear that this warning is that some of the appointed overseers or shepherds will be oppressive wolves as it says to them from among you yourselves.
Acts 20:28 Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own Son. 29 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.
1 Peter 5:1 Therefore, as a fellow elder, a witness of the sufferings of the Christ and a sharer of the glory that is to be revealed, I make this appeal to the elders among you: 2 Shepherd the flock of God under your care, serving as overseers, not under compulsion, but willingly before God; not for love of dishonest gain, but eagerly; 3 not lording it over those who are God’s inheritance, but becoming examples to the flock.
2 Peter 2:1 However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.
Mat 13:25 While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left… 30 Let both grow together until the harvest…
The holy spirit has appointed you overseers
It’s been pointed out by some elders; that elders are appointed by holy spirit and so one must never question the word or decision of an elder as if their word is gospel or that this might grieve the holy spirit or Jehovah God. Well the context shows that this is not the case as Acts 20:28.29 clearly states that some of these holy spirit appointed men will not treat the flock with tenderness, will speak twisted things and will be oppressive wolves. And Jude states of this same class of men; 4 My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment, ungodly men. Then in verses 5–11 Jude speaks of the wicked who were similarly minded and punished.
They may be appointed by holy spirit, but some are appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment of being ungodly men and will be punished accordingly. And Jude 17 As for YOU, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings … of our Lord Jesus Christ. So again the faithful would ignore anything not in harmony with God’s Word.
So clearly respect is required to biblically based council but ALL things must be proven to be biblically based and thoroughly accurate to the Word of God without any personal bias on the part of an elder.
So if some shepherd or let’s say it; elders are classified as ungodly men how about; Heb 13: 17 Be obedient to those who are taking the lead…
Do we according to God’s Word have to be obedient to appointed elders, Carte blanche!
Hebrews 13: 17
Be obedient to those who are taking the lead
Hebrews 13:7 Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out, imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever. 9 Do not be led astray by various and strange teachings… 17 Be obedient* to those who are taking the lead** among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you. NWT2013
The word; obedient is translated as; Obey in most versions but both have the meaning of submission to authority.
Heb 13:17 Obey your prelates** [Bishop], and be subject to them Douay
Heb 13:17 Obey those who rule over you**, and be submissive, NKJV
An interesting scripture often quoted, however the word ‘obedient’ or ‘obey’ is from the Greek; peitho; it is a primary verb which means ‘to convince’ and not obey! The word ‘peitho’ is used in the New Testament 52 times and in most bibles it’s translated as obey 5 times. The other occurrences are translated as; 22 persuade, 10 Confidence, 9 trust, 3 believe, 2 yield and 1 agree, that’s less than 10% translated as obedient or obey!
With the meaning of ‘peitho’ in mind perhaps a more accurate rendering would be; ‘Give them a chance to convince you those who are taking the lead** among you’. As they may be leaders (leaders by example) but they have to prove what they say originates from God and not from themselves, or else it’s worthless, remember; Acts 5:29 We must obey# God as ruler rather than men. Where the word obey is correctly translated and comes from the Greek word; peitharcheo and means; to be persuaded by a ruler. Interestingly it’s the second part of peitharcheo; archo which has the authority meaning; to be first in rank or power and not the first part; peith. So we do not obey any man only Jehovah our God.
#Greek; peitharcheo; to be persuaded by a ruler. Greek; archo; to be first (rank or power)
*Greek; peitho; a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); to pacify or conciliate by other fair means
Convince; cause to believe firmly in the truth of something, or to do something. As in; firm in one’s belief with regard to a particular cause: a convinced pacifist. ED
As an example of where and how the word ‘peitho’ is translated;
Acts 19:26 …this Paul has persuaded* a considerable crowd and turned them to another opinion.
2 Cor 2:3 …because I have confidence* that what brings me joy brings all of you the same joy.
Luke 11:22 …that man takes away all his weapons in which he was trusting*… NWT2013
Also the context of Hebrews 13:17 clearly shows the translation of the Greek ‘peitho’ as ‘Be obedient’ is totally illogical, contradictory and wrong, as ten verses up speaking of those taking the lead it states ‘Do not be led astray by various and strange teachings’ and this is obviously talking about overseers particularly when we consider other scriptures like; Acts 20:28 Pay attention to yourselves … holy spirit has appointed you overseers … 29 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things… After such a clear warning about some overseers can the Greek ‘peitho’ be translated anything other than ‘to convince’ as in Give them a chance to convince you by their use of the word of God
Interestingly at Rom 2.8 before the word obey (from Gk ‘peitho’) the word disobey is used which is also questionable as in the Greek the word is; ‘apeitheo’ and means; to disbelieve and not to disobey!
Rom 2:8 however, for those who are contentious and who disobey*** the truth but obey unrighteousness,
***Greek; apeitheo; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely)
Notice too that some bibles at Heb 13:17 use the words; ‘who rule over you’** or similar, when the Greek; hegeomai; means; to lead, as; to bring, drive, as in someone leading you on a journey, but that again is only when they have convinced you that they know the way, the right way, God’s way. Even then they can never command anyone as they are servants. They have the responsibility of keeping the congregation clean and that is only and wholly through the authority of the word of God, by keeping within clear scriptural guidelines.
**Greek; hegeomai; strengthened form of NT:71; to lead, from; ago; to lead; to bring, drive
This is how some bibles translate Heb 13:17;
Heb 13:17 Give ear to those who are rulers over you BBE – Good start, poor finish!
Heb 13:17 Have confidence in your leaders TNIV
Heb 13:17 Be responsive to your pastoral leaders. Listen to their counsel. THE MESSAGE
Some might say; but the scripture goes on to say; and be submissive, this is from the Greek hipeiko which means; to yield. However this is only and wholly if and when the elder or for that matter any other brother or sister has convinced you that what has been said is scriptural and is from God, otherwise they are as the society says are; ‘leaning on one’s own wisdom’ and ‘bound to mislead them… even cause much damage’ which is disgusting and they can respectfully go and take a run and jump and the respect isn’t for them as they have lost that right. One should only yield to Jehovah and to those who prove they are in harmony with Him, there is no place what so ever for anyone pushing personal preferences on others. 1Th 5:21 Make sure* of all things; hold fast to what is fine. 22 Abstain from every form of wickedness *Greek; dokimazo; to test
Don’t get me wrong I have a great deal of respect for most of those taking the lead and but respect is partly for the position and is partly earned, and we all should give and receive respect, then again respect can be lost too, to whoever you are and what ever position you think you have. However the word ‘peitho’ is a word of scriptural application through communication, pacification and love, the elder has to be knowledgeable and faithful to God’s Word, but unfortunately the scripture (Heb 13:17) has been used too often for dominance by some.
I have to said to some who have not been relying on the Word of God and literally been dominating to; ‘remember the rider or proviso at; 1 Thes 5:12 presiding over YOU in [the] Lord, for guidance should be only ‘in the Lord’, that hasn’t gone down well with some. It should also always be kept in mind that those being considered worthy of double honour and taking the lead also have a heavier judgement so they have to be extra careful, that also hasn’t gone down well. One can understand it can be difficult for elders to deal with criticisms of some who have fallen into sin and so to have a scripture saying ‘obey me’ gives some more standing, authority or clout, but anyone with that mind of thought shouldn’t be an elder in the first place. An elder should be able to handle the Word of the truth aright and relying on God’s Word to be approved by God and man, and as obey isn’t in the original Greek a good elder should never need to use it, as he is completely equipped without it (2 Tim 3.16).
1 Thes 5:12 Now we request you, brothers, to show respect for those who are working hard among you and presiding**** over you in [the] Lord and admonishing*****you. not forgetting my favourite scripture which should always be added; verse; 21 Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.
****Greek; proistemi; to stand before, (in rank) to preside, to practise
*****Greek; noutheteo; to put in mind, to caution or reprove gently
1 Tim 5:17 Let the elders who preside in a fine way be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching.
Interestingly the fact that the above scripture stipulates it’s only elders who preside in a fine way that should be considered worthy of double honor clearly indicates that some would not preside in a fine way which harmonises with Jude’s ungodly shepherds, here again a clear indication that to obey elders is not scriptural.
James 3:1 Not many of YOU should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment cross ref; Luke 12:48 …Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him; and the one whom people put in charge of much, they will demand more than usual of him. Heavier; Greek; meizon; in greater degree
2 Tim 2:15 Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright.
There are some who consider it a promotion, status, a step up the ladder, it is a privilege and an honour but one should consider it more in a humble way as a step down as an attendant is a servant; Mark 9:34 …on the road they had been arguing among themselves about who is greater. 35 So he sat down and called the Twelve and said to them: “If anyone wants to be first, he must be last of all and minister* of all.”
*Greek; diakonos; (to run on errands); an attendant, a waiter
Most elders are fine examples to imitate in conduct and faith and but it is in some ways in man’s nature to think more of himself, Christ was constantly reminding the apostles to humble themselves, showing them by his own perfect example of humility and these were men taught by Christ himself;
John 13:5 After that he put water into a basin and started to wash the feet of the disciples and to dry them off with the towel that was wrapped around him.
The society has changed the elder arrangement numerous times over the years to try to reduce the possibility one or more dominating the congregation. When it comes to headship may we all never forget the scripture; 1 Cor 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ… the head of the Christ is God. In a way it’s irrelevant whether the scripture says obey or convince that’s if the elder is correctly applying God’s Word, then it is God that one obeys, no matter who is the channel, but may be if we remove this idea of obedience, which can cause or contribute to the them and us attitude in some, then we can have some real progress within the leadership! However De 4:2 You must not add to the word that I am commanding you, neither must you take away from it, so as to keep the commandments of Jehovah your God that I am commanding you.
Thinking of those stumbled ones; another cross references of Jude 12 is;
Eze 34:8 ‘“As surely as I am alive,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “because my sheep have become prey, food for every wild beast of the field … and my shepherds did not search for my sheep; rather, they kept feeding themselves and did not feed my sheep, 10 I will rescue my sheep from their mouth, and they will no longer be food for them. 11 “Here I am, and I myself will search for my sheep, and I will care for them. 12 I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered in the day of clouds and thick gloom. 13 I will bring them out from the peoples and collect them together from the lands 16 “The lost one I will search for, the stray I will bring back, the injured I will bandage, and the weak I will strengthen
So even though these ungodly men may not be removed from their positions, it’s heart-warming to know that Jehovah does not forget those lost sheep who have strayed due to false shepherds actions, as Jehovah examines the heart;
1Sa 16:7 Jehovah said … For the way man sees is not the way God sees, because mere man sees what appears to the eyes, but Jehovah sees into the heart.
Ps 7:9 God who examines the hearts and the deepest emotions.
Stumbled continued
Philippians
A letter from Paul and Timothy
Php 1:10 that you may make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not stumbling others up to the day of Christ;
Another interesting scripture on stumbling is Philippians 1:10, often used in connection with giving in ‘to unclean fleshly desires’ by ‘brothers and sisters in the congregation (Text for 24 Oct 2015)’, agreed it is upsetting when such cases come to light, but a cause of stumbling not so much. The reason I said it was an interesting scripture is due to who it is addressed to.
Most letters in the New Testament are addressed to a specific a congregation; as in the letters to the Corinthians, Galatians and Thessalonians or a mixture of; to the ‘holy ones’ and ‘brothers’; as in the letters to the; Ephesians and Colossians.
However as you can see below the letter of Philippians is different, it’s to ‘the holy ones’ … ‘who are in Phi·lipʹpi’ and more specifically to the ‘overseers and ministerial servants’ and not to the Philippian congregation as a whole.
Php 1:1 Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the holy ones in union with Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, along with overseers and ministerial servants:
So it is to overseers and ministerial servants that Paul and Timothy are addressing the words; to make sure of the more important things which are ‘not to be stumbling others’. It’s the wrong doing of some of the ‘overseers and ministerial servants’ themselves, those who are supposed to be looked to as fine examples, it’s their conduct and motives that is now being highlighted. Now their bad conduct would cause stumbling, as these are supposedly to be obeyed, well that’s what’s taught. It is a false teaching.
Php 1:15 True, some are preaching the Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter are proclaiming the Christ out of love, for they know that I have been appointed to defend the good news; 17 but the former do it out of contentiousness, not with a pure motive, for they are intending to create trouble for me in my prison bonds.
So some of these ‘overseers and ministerial servants’ are spoken of as ‘preaching the Christ out of envy and rivalry’ and ‘out of contentiousness, not with a pure motive’ so basically for their own benefit the same as the shepherds of Jude, in fact this parallels Jude’s letter. Their conduct was stumbling others as they were not making sure of the more important things which was to care for the flock and not to be stumbling.
Paul in verse 9 is encouraging ‘overseers and ministerial servants’ to correct their conduct ‘with accurate knowledge and full discernment’ and there by ‘make sure of the more important things’;
Php 1:9 And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; 10 that you may make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not stumbling others up to the day of Christ; 11 and that you may be filled with righteous fruit, which is through Jesus Christ, to God’s glory and praise.
This applies to the ‘overseers and ministerial servants’ of our day especially as verse 9 states ‘not stumbling others up to the day of Christ’, but I ask this; how can it be applied in our day if it is NOT being applied as it should be to ELDERS and MINISTERIAL SERVANTS in our day! How can they benefit and how can the congregations benefit from having ‘accurate knowledge and full discernment’ if these verse are just applied to ‘to unclean fleshly desires’ by ‘brothers and sisters in the congregation’ in general and not to those God intended? It seems that the correct application is being ignored for the letter of Philippians, the same as with Jude is, not forgetting Heb 13:17 Be obedient! Or Acts 20:28-30 to shepherd the congregation of God… oppressive wolves will enter in among you… from among you yourselves.
Another interesting thing is that despite the stumbling of these ‘ungodly men’ (Jude 4) the ministry was successful; ‘Php 1:18 Christ is being proclaimed’;
Php 1:18 With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing,
Likewise today the ministry is successful, however clearly that alone does not indicate that everything is fine and dandy, that the congregations are healthy, or that stumbling isn’t rampant, and that Jehovah God is pleased!
I used the word rampant, well it would seem that this; ‘seeking their own interests’ was rampant in Paul’s day speaking of Timothy he said; Php 2:20 For I have no one else of a disposition like his who will genuinely care for your concerns. 21 For all the others are seeking their own interests, not those of Jesus Christ.
That’s why Philippians was written and just previous to the above verses is the famous Php 2:5 & 6, written to encourage humility and working together for the sake of the lord.
Php 2:5 Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.
We can all benefit from this but it was written specifically to ‘overseers and ministerial servants’ to follow Christ’s example and there by not ‘seeking their own interests, and thereby not ‘stumbling others’.
Paul finish the main part of the letter of Philippians with;
Php 4:8, Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. 9 The things that you learned as well as accepted and heard and saw in connection with me, practice these, and the God of peace will be with you.
I have seen others and also I have been the recipient of abuse by these ungodly men who seem to feel they are untouchable, too many times. Several years ago I was given the talk on Jude to do and that was an answer to prayer and strengthened my faith, and again now. As a result of my research my faith is stronger, and I feel that this could help others who may have been stumbled or seen others mistreated …
1Co 4:6 learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written”
Joh 8:31 If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples. If not;
1Sa 15:23 Since you have rejected the word of Jehovah, he accordingly rejects you.
Sometimes in the Truth this idea of being meek and mild goes too far and there is an air or atmosphere of just do as you are told, obey, well we’re not supposed to be that kind of sheep, baa following blindly. We are required by scripture, by God’s word to test out absolutely everything;
1Th 5:21 Make sure* of all things; hold fast to what is fine.
*Greek; dokimazo; to test
Stumbled continued
Titus
A letter from Paul
Paul left Titus in Crete so that he could correct the things that were defective in the many established congregations there and to make new appointments of new elders. In chapter one Paul is highlighting elders and states if there is any man free from accusation now there’s a telling statement, as God’s steward an overseer must be free from accusation but in Crete they are deceivers, liars and clearly it’s the elders as they are teaching things they should not for the sake of dishonest gain and there are many rebellious men thus Titus was instructed to keep on reproving them with severity… because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of any sort.
Paul even quotes ‘Creʹtans are always liars, injurious wild beasts, idle gluttons’ which is a quotation from ‘Epimenides’ one of Cretans own poets and apparently the Jews who had previously moved into the area had a worse reputation than the Cretans themselves, these Jews were the basis of where the congregation and it’s elders came from, which is possibly why Paul also said; if there is any man free from accusation!
It is clear that God’s stewards the elders in Crete were failing to lead the congregations in a way pleasing to Jehovah, what they were teaching was subversive, there was no care of the flock they were only interested in themselves as in; for their own dishonest gain. Consequently the congregation would have suffered at their hands and as with the letter to the Philippians and of Jude there would have been stumbling of God’s people by these ungodly men on a large scale and harming the name of Jehovah God in the outside world!
Titus 1:4 to Titus, a genuine child according to the faith … 5 I left you in Crete so that you would correct the things that were defective and make appointments of elders in city after city, as I instructed you: 6 if there is any man free from accusation, a husband of one wife, having believing children who are not accused of debauchery or rebelliousness. 7 For as God’s steward, an overseer must be free from accusation, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not a drunkard, not violent, not greedy of dishonest gain, 10 For there are many rebellious men, profitless talkers, and deceivers, especially those who adhere to the circumcision. 11 It is necessary to shut their mouths, because these very men keep on subverting entire households by teaching things they should not for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 A certain one of them, their own prophet, said: “Creʹtans are always liars, injurious wild beasts, idle gluttons.” 13 This witness is true. For this very reason, keep on reproving them with severity so that they may be healthy in the faith, 16 They publicly declare that they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of any sort. 2; 1 You, however, keep on speaking what is consistent with wholesome teaching. Similar to Jude; Titus is commended to stay faithful and true.
It’s clear that many had brought into the congregations things from their past, they had slaves and even more than one wife; Tit 2; 9 Let slaves be in subjection to their owners in all things and Titus had to choose elders only if they were 1:6 a husband of one wife. Paul here didn’t state that having slaves or more than one wife was not allowed in the congregation (possibly as some may have been converted with more than one) but that the latter would not be permitted for an elder, as an elder has greater responsibilities for the congregation and will receive a heavier judgement so he needs less distractions a home, he needs to keep his life simpler for the sake of the congregation, showing all that his focus is on others, on God and not on selfish personal interests. However we all should be reaching out, desirous of a fine work and similarly be keeping our lives simple, focused on God’s will, not on ourselves.
1Ti 3:1 This statement is trustworthy: If a man is reaching out to be an overseer, he is desirous of a fine work.
We are required according to Eph 4:22-25 and Col 3:9; to put on the new personality to; to put away the old personality to put away deceit, each one of you speak truth, the old personality was not to be just put away, so that it can come out again now and again, no but one was to go further, to Strip off the old personality with its practices, in other words to strip it off, tear it up so that it cannot be put back on again, but then some just pretend to.
To summarize it’s clear that there have been and are now today men in the Christian congregation who have been appointed as elders who are not worthy of the position, they lie, deceive, do things for their own benefit, and stumble many. They are called by Almighty God; disobedient detestable ungodly men, and oppressive wolves this truth is from God’s word.
However there are also many good hearted men who have been appointed as elders who care and work hard for the congregation and who deserve our respect, they gain this by staying within God’s word and acting within His word.
It is also clear that the congregations are not required to obey any elder, but to listen to them IF they are using God’s Word aright and not for dishonest gain.
Updated 5/1/16
Conclusion
It’s been over 480 years since Tyndale was persecuted and killed for giving us the Word of God in English and introducing us to the name of Jehovah God Himself in defiance of the orthodox church of the time, who kept the truth from the flock in order to control and dominate it, however even today the congregation is still controlled by being told they have to obey the clergy upper class, unintentionally or not due to translations still not being wholly accurate to the original Word of Jehovah God. On top of the inaccuracy of Heb 13:17 which is an abuse of scripture, assuming Jehovah’s right to exclusive devotion, whole passages of scripture including; Jude, Philippians and Titus sternly warning of bad conduct are still being misapplied to the congregation instead of the those taking the lead, so in effect there is still a clergy class. This has to change in line with the true Will and Word of Jehovah God.
Of course one has to be wary of apostasy and of anyone showing new insight into the scriptures, and anything different has to be intensely scrutinized. I would assure you that this is my faith and my Truth, and I would never intentionally do anything against it, but still check it out thoroughly. It is also worth noting that; the faithful and discreet slave, the Governing Body and the anointed in general do not say or believe that they have more insight or holy spirit than the great crowd. So logically any one can have new insight by holy spirit and so no matter who the channel is and as long as it’s in harmony with God’s Word it must be accepted;
TheFaithful Steward and Its Governing Body
However, Christians who have truly received this anointing do not demand special attention. They do not believe that their being of the anointed gives them special insights beyond what even some experienced members of the “great crowd” may have. (Rev. 7:9) They do not believe that they necessarily have more holy spirit than their companions of the “other sheep” have. . w09 6/15 pp.23-24 par. 15
Enjoy Personal Study of God’s Word
Although the slave class is defined as “faithful and discreet,” Jesus did not say that it would be infallible. This group of faithful anointed brothers still consists of imperfect Christians. Even with the best of intentions, they can be mistaken, as such men sometimes were in the first century… However, their motive is pure. w02 12/1 p.17 par. 18
Updated 22/9/15
With the greatest respect; it’s clear from scripture the faithful and discreet slave is not infallible, they have not made that statement and they should not be viewed as some view the Pope as infallible, at; Mt 24:45-51 we are told the faithful and discreet slave is appointed over his domestics, to give them their food* (spiritual food from God’s Word) and if they do then Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! But if He doesn’t, then he’s called an evil slave and the Master will punish him. Only the Master can say if they are truly faithful or not! Their primary requirement is to provide and explain where needed; all the spiritual nourishment that Jehovah God has given in His Word the bible. The ministry is one of the consequences of that nourishment.
*Greek; trophe; nourishment; from; trepho; to cherish [with food]
Mt 24:45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food* at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings. 48 “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.
In the past hundred years or so the faithful and discreet slave have revealed so much from the Word of God that we have benefited from and there is a huge gulf between Christendom and the Truth which in its self is a fulfilment of prophecy and so faith strengthening. As is the ministry work on both accounts, but we have seen many adjustments to come in line with the scriptures over the years and things that were incorrectly understood and applied are now corrected, I know this in its self is a huge insight and difficult for many to handle the loss of control, the safety net of saying obey, but it’s God’s Word and Will. And there is more; this section on the faithful and discreet slave was written after the next section was researched;
Additional
The following day text I am sorry to say is scripturally naive with not the slightest mention of testing out for yourselves that what is said is from God and just accepting what we are told by the elder, it also gives the impression that all elders are pure and true in heart and rely only on God’s Word in this so called safe haven! Experience has proved that is not always the case. And that one demonstrate[s] that we are really being “taught by Jehovah by Willing submission and obedience to the elders! It is just so wrong
Day text Sat 31/10/2015
How can we demonstrate that we are really being “taught by Jehovah”? By carefully heeding his commands. In the safe haven of our congregations, we find needed guidance and protection, for it is there that faithful men who serve as elders provide Scriptural help and counsel. (Gal. 6:1) Much of Jehovah’s tender care reaches us through these “gifts in men.” (Eph. 4:7, 8) How should we respond? Willing submission and obedience result in God’s blessing. (Heb. 13:17)
At Heb 13:17 the Greek; peitho; means ‘to convince’ and not obey!
Sorry Obedience is only to Jehovah God and not to any man or elder.
This must be changed, Jehovah is a jealous God (Ex 34:14) and We must obey God as ruler rather than men (Ac 5:29), the mere thought that anyone should obey an elder should never come into the mind of any elder or any member of the congregation, it is an insult to God and His true obedient subjects who only worship and obey Him. So how can we demonstrate that we are really being “taught by Jehovah? Answer; by being obedient to our Heavenly Father and true to the original Greek by removing this corruption of scripture of obeying elders.
Some who have been stumbled go out quickly and others often just drift away slowly after seeing these ungodly men’s actions. There is a huge difference between someone who deliberately and continuingly sins and is removed from the congregation and someone who has been stumbled out and then eventually gets on with their lives outside. Partly due to the false interpretation of scripture to obey elders some have stumbled many and surely genuine loving elders, brothers and sisters in general should be actively seeking out such stumbled ones by these ungodly men and trying our utmost to build bridges, helping them see how Jehovah God wants them personally, cares and loves them. Hopefully that His earthly organisation has at last come in line with His Word.
As some are stumbled and leave thinking how can this be the truth when such things go on, so it must be made clear; That it is scripturally acknowledged that these things have and will happen even in the true faith and as Jude spoke of the wickedness of these shepherds and stars (as in elders and ministerial servants) then in verse 17 he said As for YOU, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings … of our Lord Jesus Christ. Stay faithful or in their case come back. Of course these ungodly shepherds and stars should be removed and hopefully now they will be.
As we do by showing our reasonableness for their low spiritual state due to ungodly men, there should never be anything approaching shunning of them.
Helping them back into our lives with love and not judgement, going the extra mile to show we care. What is the point of encouraging new ones in if we ignore those good hearted ones who have been stumbled out, and if we don’t help them what will Jehovah think of us? The One that states;
Eze 34:8 ‘“As surely as I am alive,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, 11 “Here I am, and I myself will search for my sheep, and I will care for them. 16 “The lost one I will search for, the stray I will bring back, the injured I will bandage
Updated 1/11/15
The last word must be obey Jehovah God and stay true to the original Greek by removing the corruption in scripture of obeying those taking the lead and in doing so remove a major cause of stumbling.
Try;
Creation Evolution versus logic
Life, Death, Hell, Life after death – where
End of section
—————-
BiblicalNut 